tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-119906447472922361.post3313822643247460598..comments2023-12-21T22:03:18.964-08:00Comments on Sound and fury, signifying nothing: Ancestry and racial identityDade Cariagahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13431049944346345893noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-119906447472922361.post-57661114545472935902011-06-07T08:21:20.009-07:002011-06-07T08:21:20.009-07:00Thanks for the plug brother.The Jefferson issue wi...Thanks for the plug brother.<br><br>The Jefferson issue will never die for more reasons than ancestry.<br><br>Sally Hemings was just 14 when he started having sex with her.<br><br>That is rape. And since she was a slave even when he continued the issue of consent is voided.<br><br>The rape thus continued.<br><br>Rape and racism is about right.<br><br>See Winthrop Jordan's book "White Over Black" (1968) for an early discussion of the contested paternity issues.<br><br>Jefferson's own writing tells a more convoluted story about his thinking on the sexuality of women based on race.<br><br>He writes that white women are superior sexual beings but because black women and Indians have larger hips they are more suited to giving birth with ease.<br><br>Indians, however, lose many children to disease and are therefore less profitable as slaves.<br><br>Black women give birth easily and even in the fields where they can go right back to work.<br><br>So black women may not have the sexual superiority of the more frail white woman, but they are certainly profitable.<br><br>Yep that was Jefferson, patriarchal slave owner, 3rd president, rapist, and racist.<br><br>Onward! <br><br>RidwanRidwanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16758153484699728802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-119906447472922361.post-88922831416111985802011-06-07T08:21:19.528-07:002011-06-07T08:21:19.528-07:00A slave cannot consent to a relationship.Jefferson...A slave cannot consent to a relationship.<br><br>Jefferson had a relationship with a 14 year old that makes him a pedophile too.<br><br>No consent is rape.<br><br>Some of the rationalization of the "times" and the context of slavery is offensive.<br><br>And that is no "exaggeration".<br><br>RidwanRidwanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16758153484699728802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-119906447472922361.post-24808202004320258392010-03-18T00:16:08.918-07:002010-03-18T00:16:08.918-07:00A slave cannot consent to a relationship.
Jeffers...A slave cannot consent to a relationship.<br /><br />Jefferson had a relationship with a 14 year old that makes him a pedophile too.<br /><br />No consent is rape.<br /><br />Some of the rationalization of the "times" and the context of slavery is offensive.<br /><br />And that is no "exaggeration".<br /><br />RidwanRidwanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16758153484699728802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-119906447472922361.post-5670228829231136722010-03-17T22:29:50.775-07:002010-03-17T22:29:50.775-07:00On Jefferson and Hemings: the relationship was lon...On Jefferson and Hemings: the relationship was long-lasting and Jefferson did the responsible thing, by the standards of his time, and saw to it that his children with Hemings were trained in trades and freed. Two of his children "passed" as white and disappeared from history while two others, his sons Madison and Eston, were trained as carpenters and moved to Ohio, where they fathered a very large number of descendants.<br />The Hemings family had a long-standing relationship with Jefferson and his wife's family. Jefferson's father-in-law was the father of Sally and at least five of her siblings. Hemings' brother James was Jefferson's cook, who also gained his freedom and had a restaurant in Richmond. Another Hemings brother was Jefferson's butler and also ultimately gained his freedom. Another brother (not the son of Jefferson's father-in-law) was Jefferson's chief carpenter and assistant architect of Monticello. The relationship between these mixed-race slave families and their masters was very complex and you can't simply say "oh he raped her" and leave it at that. For example, Sally and James Hemings were living in France when Sally first started sleeping with Jefferson. Slavery was not permitted in France. Any slaves who were brought to France by foreign diplomats, like Jefferson, had to be registered. Jefferson had not registered the Hemingses because having slaves would have been difficult to square with his public image in France as the friend of freedom. The punishment for failure to register was freedom for the slaves in question. James certainly knew of this, and he and Sally received wages while they were there. When Jefferson was ready to return to Virginia, Sally and James made a deal with him that James and Sally's children would be free. So yes, Jefferson was a slave owner. Yes, Jefferson had a sexual relationship with one of his slaves. Yes, there was certainly a power imbalance between him and her, as indeed there was between any man and any woman at that time and of course between any white and any black in Virginia. But no, he wasn't running around raping 14-year-old slave girls - that's a gross exaggeration of what was going on.<br />I recommend the book "The Hemingses of Monticello: An American Family" by Annette Gordon-Reed. It is long but gives an excellent portrait of this very interesting family.Stewart Kingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-119906447472922361.post-19306264427887178452010-03-17T10:29:43.740-07:002010-03-17T10:29:43.740-07:00I would suggest a reading of Edwin Blacks "Wa...I would suggest a reading of Edwin Blacks "War Against the Weak." It is a book about the eugenics movement in America and how the Nazi's attached themselves to it. In fact, the Nazi's received race research funding from the same groups funding it here: The Carnegie Foundation, The Rockefeller Foundation, and the Harriman Railroad wealth.<br /><br />Race is also a tool for the master. To say the issue can be easily clouded kind of says that one doesn't really want to deal with the intimacies, intricacies, and real issues around race. See, it is a complex issue when one thinks of ones ancestry, and thus, Mexicans are really mixed and the issues they face with oppression, murder, and immigration, are far more complex. Not that easy. Nope.<br /><br />People are going to have to deal with the uncomfortable realities of race and racism if they want to move beyond it to the comforts of ancestry back to the beginning blah, blah, blah.<br /><br />I paraphrase:<br /><br />Hold to the quarter blood quantum as a definition of Indian, encourage intermarriage, and soon we will have solved our persistent Indian problem.<br /><br />Land grab! Crimes against humanity! Genocide! WE STILL WANT SOME JUSTICE!<br /><br />And this mixed blood issue in the current form of racism is BY DESIGN! The above is from an actual U.S. document from the 1920's. It doesn't cloud the issue, it makes it MORE CONVENIENT for the oppressor and those who make excuses for the oppressor.<br /><br />Since I'm only half Indian, if I had gone to boarding school, would the priest have only stuck it half way in?<br /><br />To cloud the issue with blood quantum BS is BS. These are crimes that have to be dealt with: rape, murder, genocide, land theivery, violations of the U.S. constitution by the U.S. government, etc.<br /><br />Jefferson also said of us Red Nig*** types that he wanted to annihilate, exterminate, and extirpate us. We'll just overlook that because he was a really great guy.Eugenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14422661489753353784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-119906447472922361.post-41567183447170846182010-03-16T06:50:34.039-07:002010-03-16T06:50:34.039-07:00Thanks for the plug brother.
The Jefferson issue ...Thanks for the plug brother.<br /><br />The Jefferson issue will never die for more reasons than ancestry.<br /><br />Sally Hemings was just 14 when he started having sex with her.<br /><br />That is rape. And since she was a slave even when he continued the issue of consent is voided.<br /><br />The rape thus continued.<br /><br />Rape and racism is about right.<br /><br />See Winthrop Jordan's book "White Over Black" (1968) for an early discussion of the contested paternity issues.<br /><br />Jefferson's own writing tells a more convoluted story about his thinking on the sexuality of women based on race.<br /><br />He writes that white women are superior sexual beings but because black women and Indians have larger hips they are more suited to giving birth with ease.<br /><br />Indians, however, lose many children to disease and are therefore less profitable as slaves.<br /><br />Black women give birth easily and even in the fields where they can go right back to work.<br /><br />So black women may not have the sexual superiority of the more frail white woman, but they are certainly profitable.<br /><br />Yep that was Jefferson, patriarchal slave owner, 3rd president, rapist, and racist.<br /><br />Onward! <br /><br />RidwanRidwanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16758153484699728802noreply@blogger.com